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UnderOath
Wordy Bastard
838 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2004 : 05:05:54
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Krusty and I had a very interesting, yet fun debate on a portion of an essay I wrote. I decided to bring the essay here for your thoughts and opinions, all are welcomed. I am always up for some constructive criticism.
There are many grammatical/spelling errors in this version of the paper, the edited version is on another computer, so please dont flame/criticize me on the grammar errors, go strictly on the content of the essay.
Here she is:
The passion and faith Hitler put into his personal beliefs based on his opinion are a result of his childhood and early adult upbringing. He was the product of a physically and mentally abused child that took an artistic view of the world and everything within; views that were twisted to most everyone, even to most of his followerers, but perfectly logical to him. When Hitler is spoken of, most think of a crazed lunatic that murdered millions of innocent Jews, when in fact this man is one of the most intelligent and influential people to walk this Earth, he just also so happened to erase 6 million innocent Jews from this Earth. When it comes down to it, the mind of Adolf Hitler is not questionable in means of intelligence, but the actions of Adolf Hitler are. Hitler's ability to speak, argue, and evaluate situations as well as society was what set him apart from everyone else. He was able to fill the minds of millions of people who were even remotely impressionable with his views and ideas of anti-semitism by giving phenomenal speaches. He argued points using fact, logic, and opinion to defeat any argument against his teachings and to support any views that encouraged his teachings. Hitlers ability to evaluate society and situations were both biased and racist but also very thorough and deep with intelectual reasoning.
A life is a record of what was done and what wasnt. In a sense it is more like a story, a portrayel of ones soul and how it interacted with many other unique individuals. Some stories are very similar in the events that took place, in the climaxs that occured, and the endings that marked the conclusion of lives. Every now and then you will come across a story that is unlike any other, one no one can comprehend or fully understand. Often enough when someone comes across a story they do not understand, they most often write it off with their opinion based on assumptions and steriotypes in which they have heard or have previosly learned, rarely ever looking deeper into the mind or issue involved. The Story of Adolf Hitler is a story few will ever understand or look into. To refuse to look at Adolf's life with an ignorant mind, and to look at the mind of Hitler without the prejudice and narrow-mindedness that any typical being would, surely more answers and explanations of what caused this mans life to take the dark approach it did in trying to create a eutopia would provail.
In order to get to the root of this "evil", its only appropriate we get to the root of Adolf Hitler by examining and evaluating the early years of his life. At the beginning of every story there are very important details that describe and paint a picture as to why the story will go where its going. Hitler's childhood is often overlooked because of the horrific events that took place during his adulthood, but if the events of this mans road from childhood to adulthood were looked into, it would provide more understanding and reasoning as to why Adolf Hitler became the man he did. Due to the devastating events that occured early in Hitlers life, these events provide insight into his demented views of the world and society as a whole.
The childhood and teenage years of Adolf were plagued by three deaths in his immediate family: his brother, father, and mother. His brother's death came when Adolf was ten years old, his brother was six. The emotional strain and trauma on a ten year old after losing his brother is substantial and can cause a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding about life in general. At such a young age it is extremely difficult to cope and deal with such an issue, sometimes even, the issue is left unsettled and often leaves the child emotionally scarred. Depending on the relationship of Adolf and his younger brother, a friendship could have been torn away as well, and that in addition to losing a brother could be even more taumatizing for this young boy.
Adolf's father, Alois, was a civil services agent who worked the border patrol in Austria. The discipline of being a civil services agent carried over into the home of Alois Hitler and was applied to his family, including Adolf. The abuse laid upong Adolf Hitler was not only verbal, but alsomental and physical. Children that are verbally abused generally grow up to have psychological and behavioral problems, and generally they will be more aggresive as well as have trouble socially among their peers. It can also create a feeling of worthlessness and can create difficulties with trust. Mentally abusing a child can often confuse and create feelings and thoughts that shouldnt normally take place, and that are often not true. Mental abuse can traumatize a child permanently by creating insecurities, hopelessness, and seclusion. Psychological abuse can alter a child's perception of everything that he faces in his life. Verbal abuse can easily tear a childs confidence down, can also make the child become fearful of two-way communication.
The death of Alois has been written to be a "relief" for Adolf, but the fact that a 13 year old boy lost his father is a tradgedy to any boy regardless the quality of their relationship prior to the death. According to research, children that have lost their fathers have a dramatically greater risk of mental illness, suicide, poor educational performance, and criminality. Regardless of what Adolf would say, conciously or unconciously, his fathers death affected him in more than one way. As a result of Alois' life and death, Adolf was greatly influenced by his father in both positive and negative aspects.
The third significant death in Adolf's life was that of his mother, Adolf was closet to his mother. This death, which can easily be compared to both Adolf's brother and father's deaths combined, would most likely have affected him the most. The family member he was closest to, the last remaining one to look up to, the last one to support him, suddenly passed away, obviously it would have an affect on the still teenage boy. Many of the same psychological problems that occur when a father figure is no longer present arise in the absence of a mother. A few characteristics that are obtained through having the presence of a mother that are usually obtained from childhood to adulthood are usually the more sensitive values such as compassion, benevolence, sympathy. Even though Adolf's mother didn't pass away until he was seventeen, these traits could have been considerably damaged or even completely ruined due to the emotional strain a death can put on an individual.
As Adolf moved on with his life, he pursued his artisitc career by drawing structures on postcards and selling them. In hopes of furthering his talent of artistry, Adolf applied to a popular Art institute. After passing the first test that was required for admission, Adolf failed the second test and was denied acceptance. Relentless to give up on his career as an artist so abruptly, Adolf reapplied to the same college only this time, failed the first test and once again was denied. To a young aspiring artist, being denied to the college you wanted to attend could be like hearing that you are not a talented enough artist to make it a profession. Hostile or ill feelings could have been placed into Adolf mind as a result of being rejected of your dream, twice, and could have altered his view on many situations, people, or life. Losing hope in the one dream or aspiration that you have can cause you to lose hope in everything.
After his denial to the art institute, Hitler decided to join the German forces to fight in World War I. Adolf received quite a few awards as well as a great deal of respect for the part he played in the front lines of the war. Though for some, entering the army may be a good experience, there are often many psychological effects it can have on any person. A major effect this can have on a person is the ability to desensitize them to fear and horror, as well as make violence more acceptable to them. Any compassion one may already naturally posses for another human being may also be altered due to the hatred that one is taught to have for the enemy in war, and when put back into society, a soldier may continue to put this hatred towards any enemies they may have or may have in the future. Not only will this hatred they have been taught be applied to an enemy but also the lack of compassion and sensitivity torwards another person will take place.
It is believed by many people that everything happens with a reason and a purpose, it should also be believed that every event occurs to mold us into a different person day by day. Each and every one of these events that occured to Adolf Hitler contributed to the person he became in one way or another. The psychological affect each of these events can have on a person were evident in Hitler's actions throughout his political career. The interesting part of this "story" is that this man truly believed the thing he was so passionate for was what was right, was what would help society obtain perfection, would make the world a better place, and perhaps it did. The world is a better place not because of the millions of deaths that Hitler is responsible for, but because of his life and death, every single person can learn so much, that is if they look at his life without ignorance and narrow-mindedness. If they choose to study the man that was responsible for what occured, rather then the actions of the man, they will surely be chnaged. Of course to todays "normal" person, this mans actions were "sick and twited" but to some it may have seemed perfectly logical, once again, everything happens for a reason and purpose, Adolf Hitler had a reason and purpose.
How can Hitler be condemned for what he did when his actions were, in his opinion, morally right. Condemning a man for his actions based on ones personal morals is not logical, for who is to say that ones morals are correct and Hitlers were wrong? To this man, what he was doing was right, truth, and necessary, but it may have been demented and horrific to another. Surely another man has done things that seemed perfectly logical to him, but based on Hitler's morals, they may have been "sick and twisted" or even "demented and horrific". This argument can be debated on for eternity and never be concluded, after all, "An argument based entirely on opinion will never cease due to lack of factual foundation, no truth can prevail from opinion." Moral values are often based on a mans faith in what he believes to be truth, but how can Hitler's motives be judged on morals that are not of his own? Morals are based off of what one man puts his faith in in what is believed to be absolute truth, but how can one mans faith in what morals are absolute truth be applied to another mans life when his faith in what morals are absolute truth are the complete opposite? The fact of the matter is, judging Adolf Hitler's life based on ones personal moralistic views is not only wrong but also ignorant. No one will ever understand another man because that is not our purpose, not to mention the human mind is too weak and feeble to comprehend another mind. The only way the life of Adolf Hitler can be looked at is by looking at it with the motives and reasons that Hitler himself had. Adolf was doing what he felt would contirbute to the World, in a sense, in becoming an Utopia. Though the human mind will never understand another, and no person will ever make reason of Hitler's motives, all we can do is recoginize how Adolf hitlers life helped contribute to the World's road to Utopia, and how did his existance and actions helped make it a better place.
Edited by - UnderOath on 01/22/2004 05:07:04
Edited by - UnderOath on 01/22/2004 05:08:51 |
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Krusty
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
1158 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 06:47:38
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Aww, where's that quote I gave you that helps to debunk the most common arguement against your point?
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UnderOath
Wordy Bastard
838 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 11:02:39
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Ok ok...Here's the quote that went against Krusty's own rgument against my paper.
Krusty (1:20:53 AM): "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."
- Bertrand Russell
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ListerD
Administrator
1205 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 11:25:05
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That quote is more or less why I left seminary...
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Slayer_Allen
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
2081 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 14:41:07
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And Hitler may have a bad rep, but the halocaust was not totally his doing.
Heinrich Himmler has a good deal of blood on his hands.
quote:
Though the human mind will never understand another, and no person will ever make reason of Hitler's motives, all we can do is recoginize how Adolf hitlers life helped contribute to the World's road to Utopia, and how did his existance and actions helped make it a better place.
This sounds all the world to me like you are saying killing 6 million Jews made the world a better place.
The basis for your arguement seems to be that we cannot know really right or wrong, and cannot judge Hitler because we have no way of knowing if what he did was morally justified. If I have it wrong, feel free to reword your thesis for me. Knowing the one main thing I know about you, do you actually believe that? From my point of view, this statement is correct (not to say that I actually think the holocaust was justifyable, just that I agree that we cannot know anything), but I'm surprised to hear that coming from someone of your religious persuasion. If I wanted to argue that point, I'd probably use a different case study...
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Edited by - Slayer_Allen on 01/22/2004 14:50:39 |
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PisnNapalm
Moderator
1508 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 15:31:51
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Please explain to me how Hitler made the world a better place. Better yet, explain it to my great aunt who lost a brother in WWII.
I dare say that if the Allies of WWI had not been so harsh on the German people after WWI, then Hitler might have just been a minor footnote in German politics.
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Slayer_Allen
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
2081 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 16:03:20
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quote:
I dare say that if the Allies of WWI had not been so harsh on the German people after WWI, then Hitler might have just been a minor footnote in German politics.
Signed.
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Master of world
Official Forum *****
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 18:08:58
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actually if French and the British would have made their move when Hitler decided to attack Rhineland Hitler quoted that "i would have been defeated and not been able to establish Germany's empire and my invasion would have been in retreat" but the problem was that the French and British were still coming off there fears during WWI and did not want a repeat of the war even though they could have easily prevented it
by the way 6 million jews were not killed during WWII it is absoultley false statement. those accuasations are not accurate.
i dont wanna start a flame war about this i am not trying to be racist in any way or any how so will not say anything in addition to this waht i am saying is true. only 1,631,348 jews were massacred in WWII because of Hitler and his empire
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ListerD
Administrator
1205 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 19:23:24
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I'll let this thread run, but let's not let it get heated and keep the facts on the board...
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Krusty
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
1158 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 19:27:39
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Where do you get your facts MoW? Everything I've ever heard was that 6 million were killed.
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UnderOath
Wordy Bastard
838 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 02:00:56
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quote:
Please explain to me how Hitler made the world a better place. Better yet, explain it to my great aunt who lost a brother in WWII.
I dare say that if the Allies of WWI had not been so harsh on the German people after WWI, then Hitler might have just been a minor footnote in German politics.
First off Steve, I apoligize if this has offended you, by no means would that ever be my intention.
The point i was trying to make was that because of hitlers existence, we learned a lot, what not to do, how to handle situations, etc. It wasnt the fact that he murdered 6 million people (i do believe the more accurate number was 6.3 million), but the fact that we all learn from everything. Old saying "we learn from our mistakes, and those of others." In my opinion, he indirectly affected the world in a positive way.
quote:
I'll let this thread run, but let's not let it get heated and keep the facts on the board...
Lister, I ask that you leave this thread open for at least a few days, but please be more then welcome to moderate an posts strictly so that no one of any religious or non religious background will not be offended.
quote:
quote:
Though the human mind will never understand another, and no person will ever make reason of Hitler's motives, all we can do is recoginize how Adolf hitlers life helped contribute to the World's road to Utopia, and how did his existance and actions helped make it a better place.
The basis for your arguement seems to be that we cannot know really right or wrong, and cannot judge Hitler because we have no way of knowing if what he did was morally justified. If I have it wrong, feel free to reword your thesis for me. Knowing the one main thing I know about you, do you actually believe that? From my point of view, this statement is correct (not to say that I actually think the holocaust was justifyable, just that I agree that we cannot know anything), but I'm surprised to hear that coming from someone of your religious persuasion. If I wanted to argue that point, I'd probably use a different case study...
Slayer, its interesting you bring this up. Yes I have a religious background, and yes my view isnt the typical view someone with beliefs similar to mine might have, but I am not going to ignore the depth of the mind. I agree that I may have approached this in anything but the typical way someone with my morals foundation may have.
It is often discouraged, and even looked down upon to incorporate philosophy into "religion", but one may learn a great deal from examining the human mind from a secular point of view. I am not your typical theological person. I often am refered to (and I too accept this statement about myself) as being "a philosopher with a christ bearing soul."
Philosophy is very interesting and very deep and many people can learn a great deal from it.
I tend to often live by a certain quote by the great philosopher Aristotle, "It's is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I do indeed entertain thoughts, to a higher level then most would expect of someone of my background, but I choose not to shelter myself from what I can learn a great deal from.
The human mind cannot expand its knowledge and depth without being challenged with knowledge and depth. (a personal theory)
***now***
I would like to hear opinions on the paper, hitler, and what your opinion of what happened is....not so much me lol. Slayer (or anyone for that matter), if you would like to further discuss anything pertaining to my faith or philisophical views, please do so in private. E-mail is david.brown45@comcast.net
Edited by - UnderOath on 01/23/2004 02:03:01 |
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Master of world
Official Forum *****
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 17:16:01
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Where do you get your facts MoW? Everything I've ever heard was that 6 million were killed.
professors over in Jerusalem i use to go to school over theere and we learned the true purpose of what happened their and we have stuided and collected data over in the concentration camps from europe and have been studying for years in history about this
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Master of world
Official Forum *****
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 17:17:14
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well i really cant tell you krusty about were exactly and why the jews have claimed estimate i dont wanna start a racist arugment over somethign now worth fighting for i dont wanna get in trouble
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Slayer_Allen
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
2081 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 17:23:54
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Underoath, is your last name Brown?
I wonder if you are related to my family in some way...
And MoW, it's all about Bias. There are other people who argue that the Holocaust never happened at all. I don't really know enough about the subject to comment, but I do know that people can and will twist facts to show whatever they want.
And the fact that your estimate is down to a person made me lol irl.
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Krusty
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
1158 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 17:43:15
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quote:
Underoath, is your last name Brown?
I wonder if you are related to my family in some way...
Hey, if it is Brown, I bet there's a chance I'm related to his family as well. Wouldn't that be weird?
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Slayer_Allen
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
2081 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 18:47:15
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I'm not a Brown myself, but my step-family is a bunch of crazy Browns.
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Krusty
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
1158 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 19:24:50
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I've got a bunch of crazy browns in my family as well. One day I'll post a pic of one of the browns in my family dancing around in a tutu.
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UnderOath
Wordy Bastard
838 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 19:58:56
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quote:
I've got a bunch of crazy browns in my family as well. One day I'll post a pic of one of the browns in my family dancing around in a tutu.
Back on topic....
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Andrid
Wordy Bastard
692 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2004 : 22:37:49
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2 little things:
1)he also killed 5 million gays nad handicapped....you might want to talk about that too.
2)I just can't stand the last paragraph. it's like your defending his actions. i know that a twist on things is nice, but this is something that just doesn't make any sense with first world countries ethical laws about hitler
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absu-****ing-lutly
Edited by - Andrid on 01/24/2004 23:45:34 |
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Slayer_Allen
Incredibly Wordy Bastard
2081 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2004 : 02:04:42
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Heh, if what you say in the last paragraph is true, then we are living a lie.
Democracy is based on the idea that at least half the people are right at least half the time. (Someone said that, but I can't remember who) I daresay that if we cannot agree that genocide is not morally acceptable, then we have no business attempting to run a nation.
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UnderOath
Wordy Bastard
838 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2004 : 02:30:06
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IF there were no morals and ethics to live by, how would murder and hatred and any other "evil" thing be considered "evil". If there is no standard of right and wrong, how can something be right or wrong? I basically said hitler's morals were different from mine, and perhaps yours. If his morals considered murder to be acceptable, then it wasnt wrong, to him, but it still is to you based on your morals.
I know this sounds twisted and what not, but think about it, if someone has no foundation of right and wrong, how can we say Hitler's actions were wrong when we areselves dont truly know what right and wrong is?
Where did morals come from? What does determine right and wrong? Why is murder wrong?
There has to be some kind of foundation of moralistic values to determine what right and wrong is, where do yours come from? If hitler had no foundation of morals, how is he to determine what right and wrong is?
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Hitler...
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